Getting Tight Drum Sounds

[bwest]

I'm just starting out on this and one of the biggest obstacles im coming across is my drum sounds... i've been sampling alot of sounds and i have some stock libraries but i can't seem to get the crisp, tight sounds i've heard on some of yalls beats. I've got a basic understand of mixing but what are some basic things i can do to my drums to get them sounding good.... or is it all in picking the right sounds?

[dkelloway]

Bwest, welcome to our boards!

For me, there are 3 ways that I would typically find drum sounds. These are 1) dig for drum sounds on vinyl 2) get them from sound modules 3) sample them from cd's or mp3's.

You asked if getting tight drum sounds is it about picking the right sounds? ABSOLUTELY. However, I feel that you need to pick the drum sounds that are within your beatmaking "range". If you have a particular sound in your library that doesn't seem to go with all the other sounds, it's probably wack. As soon as your start to force sounds into your beats, that is the moment when you will probably realize that they are wack. For example, if I tried to use a "Sexual Healing" -like snare on one of my beats, it would probably sound wack b/c it goes against what I'm trying to accomplish, you dig?

What equipment are you using? The process of getting good drum sounds is very different depending on if you are working within a hardware or software environment. For example, if I wanted to make a custom drum sound in software, this is what I would do.

1) Find my "Ultimate Break Beat Series" vinyl record, and record the drum phrase that I would like to sample. I will run it though my mixer to "treat" the sound before it goes into the PC.

2) Once inside my PC, I will sample these drums in mono, and then I will chop the kicks/snares/hats etc... that sound good to me.

3) Once I have them loaded as individual hits, I will use compression, EQ, and reverb in the signal chain (in that order). I will tweak these until I get the desired sound. Depending on the record, you might not have to use many effects because the drum might be EQ'ed properly to your liking (it also all depends on the context in which you're using the drum sound)

4) If the sounds still aren't fat enough for my liking, I will dig for more kicks/snares/hats to layer with one another. I will send each kick or snare to it's individual channel where I can EQ separately. For instance, say I am using the "Impeach The President" kick, and I really like the knock it gives, I might EQ some of the lows out of it, and increase the "knock" by tweaking with the filters. Then, say I find the "Funky President" kick (which I feel has lots of low end) I will EQ the highs out, and increase the lows. I will then layer the two drum hits on top of each other and I will tweak the pitch until they sound right together. Sometimes I also add a little "stutter" kick after the main kick to add a bit more "bump" to the kick.

5) once that is done, and the kick feels right in context of the beat, I will mute all the channels, and sample my own "custom" kick, and I will save it in my files along with the original "Impeach The President" and "Funky President" kicks.

Hope this helped!

[bwest]

Yeah its alot to digest... when i started a few months back i had no idea how detailed the process actually is. I'm using all software right now... midi controller, etc. From what i'm reading.. i want to get into the hardware i just don't have the funds for it at the moment. I guess the other thing i'm lacking right now is direction... I can't seem to find a sound or style I like because there are so many options and i tend to try and do everything at once and get overwhelmed... I've recently started sampling alot of drum sounds but i can't seem to find what i am looking for exactly and when i layer it seems forced or they dont blend well... and its like i'm not inclined to try and add compression, eq, etc because i don't know exactly how to get the sound i want so i just move on the the next beat. I really just want to get at least a few good kicks, snares, hats, etc that will fit with most situations. I'm gonna do some more experimenting and use the suggestions in your post and hopefully soon it will start clicking better for me

[dkelloway]

Yeah its alot to digest... when i started a few months back i had no idea how detailed the process actually is. I'm using all software right now... midi controller, etc. From what i'm reading.. i want to get into the hardware i just don't have the funds for it at the moment. I guess the other thing i'm lacking right now is direction... I can't seem to find a sound or style I like because there are so many options and i tend to try and do everything at once and get overwhelmed... I've recently started sampling alot of drum sounds but i can't seem to find what i am looking for exactly and when i layer it seems forced or they dont blend well... and its like i'm not inclined to try and add compression, eq, etc because i don't know exactly how to get the sound i want so i just move on the the next beat. I really just want to get at least a few good kicks, snares, hats, etc that will fit with most situations. I'm gonna do some more experimenting and use the suggestions in your post and hopefully soon it will start clicking better for me

yeah, it's tough, you will get it though. I can suggest that you listen to lots of soul, funk, jazz, and rock, and then that might help you develop your own style. Also, try to understand how each drum sound blends in with your beat before you apply any effects. Too much reliance on effects without first understanding how sounds work while blended with one another can actually do you more harm than good!

[bwest]

haha those genres are most of what i listen to anyway.... I've played guitar for years... as well as bass and drums so thats where my musical background is... thanks for the post man, it was helpful

[Sa'id]

Bwest, welcome to our boards!

For me, there are 3 ways that I would typically find drum sounds. These are 1) dig for drum sounds on vinyl 2) get them from sound modules 3) sample them from cd's or mp3's.

You asked if getting tight drum sounds is it about picking the right sounds? ABSOLUTELY. However, I feel that you need to pick the drum sounds that are within your beatmaking "range". If you have a particular sound in your library that doesn't seem to go with all the other sounds, it's probably wack. As soon as your start to force sounds into your beats, that is the moment when you will probably realize that they are wack. For example, if I tried to use a "Sexual Healing" -like snare on one of my beats, it would probably sound wack b/c it goes against what I'm trying to accomplish, you dig?

What equipment are you using? The process of getting good drum sounds is very different depending on if you are working within a hardware or software environment. For example, if I wanted to make a custom drum sound in software, this is what I would do.

1) Find my "Ultimate Break Beat Series" vinyl record, and record the drum phrase that I would like to sample. I will run it though my mixer to "treat" the sound before it goes into the PC.

2) Once inside my PC, I will sample these drums in mono, and then I will chop the kicks/snares/hats etc... that sound good to me.

3) Once I have them loaded as individual hits, I will use compression, EQ, and reverb in the signal chain (in that order). I will tweak these until I get the desired sound. Depending on the record, you might not have to use many effects because the drum might be EQ'ed properly to your liking (it also all depends on the context in which you're using the drum sound)

4) If the sounds still aren't fat enough for my liking, I will dig for more kicks/snares/hats to layer with one another. I will send each kick or snare to it's individual channel where I can EQ separately. For instance, say I am using the "Impeach The President" kick, and I really like the knock it gives, I might EQ some of the lows out of it, and increase the "knock" by tweaking with the filters. Then, say I find the "Funky President" kick (which I feel has lots of low end) I will EQ the highs out, and increase the lows. I will then layer the two drum hits on top of each other and I will tweak the pitch until they sound right together. Sometimes I also add a little "stutter" kick after the main kick to add a bit more "bump" to the kick.

5) once that is done, and the kick feels right in context of the beat, I will mute all the channels, and sample my own "custom" kick, and I will save it in my files along with the original "Impeach The President" and "Funky President" kicks.

Hope this helped!

dk,

Well said...

—Sa'id

[Sa'id]

bwest,

First bit of advice: Get a better feel what crisp drums sound like. To that end, I strongly recommend listening to mid- and slower-tempo soul songs. Listen to the drum frameworks, pay attention to how each drum sound lands in each measure. As you get a better *feel* for how certain drum sounds move, you gain a better understanding for how to make your sound "crisp."

Thing is, the tightness in my drum sounds, (99% of them are sampled from records), comes from my focus on recontextualization. That is, I try to situate the *feel* of the drum sounds that I sample into my overall sound. I believe that this emphases is what dictates even my processes for modifying my sounds. So unlike some beatmakers, who try to get their drums tight like DJ Premier or Dr. Dre, that's never been my goal. For me, "tightness" is about modifying your drum sounds simply to fit your overall sound. Within the process of *that* quest, you will find that your drum sounds will indeed turn out crisp.

—Sa'id

[dkelloway]

bwest,

First bit of advice: Get a better feel what crisp drums sound like. To that end, I strongly recommend listening to mid- and slower-tempo soul songs. Listen to the drum frameworks, pay attention to how each drum sound lands in each measure. As you get a better *feel* for how certain drum sounds move, you gain a better understanding for how to make your sound "crisp."

Thing is, the tightness in my drum sounds, (99% of them are sampled from records), comes from my focus on recontextualization. That is, I try to situate the *feel* of the drum sounds that I sample into my overall sound. I believe that this emphases is what dictates even my processes for modifying my sounds. So unlike some beatmakers, who try to get their drums tight like DJ Premier or Dr. Dre, that's never been my goal. For me, "tightness" is about modifying your drum sounds simply to fit your overall sound. Within the process of *that* quest, you will find that your drum sounds will indeed turn out crisp.

—Sa'id

Great post. Also, i'd like to add that it depends on where the events land. For example, a simple drum pattern could "bang" or "sound crisp" if it doesn't take up too much room and hits at strategic points in the sequence.

[bwest]

First bit of advice: Get a better feel what crisp drums sound like. To that end, I strongly recommend listening to mid- and slower-tempo soul songs. Listen to the drum frameworks, pay attention to how each drum sound lands in each measure. As you get a better *feel* for how certain drum sounds move, you gain a better understanding for how to make your sound "crisp."

I think I get what you are saying... The way i always think of it is as like a jazz song or even a rock song where more syncopation and technicalities are better as a way to make the rhythm move. On the first couple ones i made my roommate told me that it didnt sound like hip-hop. So stylistically it's been a definate transition. It's just like anything else... getting the basics right is crucial to success

[Sa'id]

I think I get what you are saying... The way i always think of it is as like a jazz song or even a rock song where more syncopation and technicalities are better as a way to make the rhythm move. On the first couple ones i made my roommate told me that it didnt sound like hip-hop. So stylistically it's been a definate transition. It's just like anything else... getting the basics right is crucial to success

Exactly! You're absolutely on the right path! Also, one thing that I want to point out is that listening to *hip hop/rap* isn't the only (or even best way) to grasp hip hop/rap. As ironic as that may sound, I've learned more from studying soul (funk) arrangements and drum frameworks than I have studying hip hop/rap arrangements and drum frameworks. Of course you need to studying hip hop/rap music, that goes without question. However, when you're transitioning from one grand music tradition (background) to another, I find it very helpful to study the *foundation tradition* which fostered the music tradition that you're trying to transition to.

—Sa'id

[DJ Chill]

Exactly! You're absolutely on the right path! Also, one thing that I want to point out is that listening to *hip hop/rap* isn't the only (or even best way) to grasp hip hop/rap. As ironic as that may sound, I've learned more from studying soul (funk) arrangements and drum frameworks than I have studying hip hop/rap arrangements and drum frameworks. Of course you need to studying hip hop/rap music, that goes without question. However, when you're transitioning from one grand music tradition (background) to another, I find it very helpful to study the *foundation tradition* which fostered the music tradition that you're trying to transition to.

—Sa'id

Thats some good advice. I know I need to do more of that.

[Castro Beats]

Outside of listening to what tight drums are, there some useful tools to help accomplish collecting drums. The MPC obviously, they got this thing called JJOS which is an operating system that apparently offers more features through the entire MPC specifically when chopping samples. If you were doing this on a computer I would recommend Recycle. It offers compression, eq and time stretch SEEMLESSLY. A sensitivity meter creates slice points that you can adjust, lock, loop BOOM! Ahah, it is an amazing tool for chopping samples, both drums and other.

[bwest]

haha you quoted me for the home page... thats whats up glad i could help

[bwest]

I made a new beat i really like and the drum sounds are better.... i layered some drums and got em sounding satisfying but they still sound thin... and sort of "apart" from the rest of the mix

[bwest]

Ok... I think i had a breakthrough... I reread your post before DK and if I layer the drums and then eq them so that each layer fills in a space that seems to be lacking it fills it out and makes it fatter and more satisfying