Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Martin Smith's Review of The BeatTips Manual

Collapse
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Martin Smith's Review of The BeatTips Manual

    "Peace Sa'id,

    I want to... and have to thank you for The Beat Tips Manual. It's a beautiful book.

    I'm so impressed what you've done writing this. It's more than a "how to" book, it's an intellectual, academic look at the creation, evolution, process and philosophy of hip-hop production(which is different than other types - sonically and dynamically). ...you've tied geographical, socioeconomic, sociopolitical, racial and technological components together to explain the DNA of beatmaking. You even mention Robert Moses!

    Sa'id, I read a lot. I have never seen anything like this! It tackles a big subject perfectly. It's like "reading" a documentary - your writing is visual. For instance your philosophy of Musical Boundaries and Borders or your example of Isaac Hayes' "By The Time I Get To Phoenix", man that some dope sh%t! You totally get ALL music.

    You are a talented and blessed man.

    I wanted to make sure I let you know I have the book and how much I appreciate it."
    Martin Smith, Digital Soul Experience

    sigpic
    The BeatTips Manual, 5th Edition
    Available now!

    BeatTips - The most trusted name in beatmaking and hip hop/rap music education.

  • #2
    Definitely agree that reading the manual is like reading a documentary.
    fortifiedsoul.bandcamp.com

    www.soundclick.com/twolegit

    Comment


    • #3
      I refer to it all the time just for a good read. I learn something new every time. Even if its just that Premo uses an Oxygen 49 or what Sa' does in reference to looping, drums, pitching, etc... Its a good book, but mine is starting to fall apart from the wear and tear. Lol.
      "I'm a chef, not chief, cause i don't recruit/ I take a well known loop and chop it up like fruit."

      https://soundcloud.com/da-real-bingo

      Comment


      • #4
        Well said and so true. I couldn't agree with you more! I am 1/4 of the way through it and absolutely loving it! The Beat Tips Manual is one of a kind, a great read, and very informative. Two thumbs up!!!

        ---The Mystic Fish

        Originally posted by Sa'id View Post
        "Peace Sa'id,

        I want to... and have to thank you for The Beat Tips Manual. It's a beautiful book.

        I'm so impressed what you've done writing this. It's more than a "how to" book, it's an intellectual, academic look at the creation, evolution, process and philosophy of hip-hop production(which is different than other types - sonically and dynamically). ...you've tied geographical, socioeconomic, sociopolitical, racial and technological components together to explain the DNA of beatmaking. You even mention Robert Moses!

        Sa'id, I read a lot. I have never seen anything like this! It tackles a big subject perfectly. It's like "reading" a documentary - your writing is visual. For instance your philosophy of Musical Boundaries and Borders or your example of Isaac Hayes' "By The Time I Get To Phoenix", man that some dope sh%t! You totally get ALL music.

        You are a talented and blessed man.

        I wanted to make sure I let you know I have the book and how much I appreciate it."
        Martin Smith, Digital Soul Experience

        Comment


        • #5
          Ya that review is spot on! Sa'id is an amazing writer and they way he has crafted the 5th edition is nothing less than masterful. It should be on all major bookseller bookshelves in the music section. Look at the reviews on amazon.com.

          http://www.amazon.com/The-BeatTips-M...owViewpoints=1


          The book and community here are a blessing to anyone who finds them.

          Comment


          • #6
            Agree!

            I bought the ebook around a month ago and printed it myself, with spiral binding and all that good stuff. I'm carrying it in my backback and am reading mainly on the way to/from work. I'm approx. 1/3 through it and so far love it!

            The history part is extremely interesting as it does not only describe the beatmaking tradition but the overall circumstances around the evolution of hip-hop culture. But without forgetting that it's still a beatmaking book. Actually I did not really understand that it could be ever so important to state that hip-hop/rap music does not originate from Jamaica. I mean, 20 pages just to point out where hip-hop does NOT come from? Seriously... well if it's so important for you or for sake of historical corectness, go for it. But for me personally I just wanted to skip pages and proceed to the interesting stuff.

            Apart from that, the rest of the book (of which I could get a taste so far) is brilliant! There are many books out there which describe the beatmaking / music making process in a very technical way while not giving the overall picture. This is where the beatmaking manual comes into play because it provides just that missing link between the technical and the theoretical side of beatmaking. Before, I've been studying a lot of technical manuals (from the gear makers, beatmaking on the mpc 1000 etc) to understand my gear but only with this book I am now learning how to actually apply my technical knowledge and how to free my musical creativity. I also love the sidenotes and references to exemplary beats which further help to understand how the concepts are applied. If there will ever be a 6th edition, I would love to see even more references of hip-hop/rap songs while concepts are explained.

            I guess that for me personally the sample clearance / business law stuff will not be too compelling but I respect that it is of major importance for many. So I will just see what I get out of it.

            In general I'm very thankful for the book. It's an outstanding product! Well done

            Comment


            • #7
              ... but disappointed of "The Art Of Sampling"

              *** Edit 3-25-2013: PLEASE READ MY POST FURTHER DOWN WHERE I CORRECT SOME POINTS I MADE HERE

              After being so happy with "The BeatTips Manual", when I discovered that you also wrote another e-book, "The Art Of Sampling", for me it was a no-brainer that I would buy that one as well. But actually I am very disappointed!
              In the introduction you explain that you want to evaluate further into the art of sampling and want to elaborate a bit more about everything. But actually, 90% of the contents in "The Art Of Sampling" are just copy-pasted from "The BeatTips Manual". I mean, I wouldn't mind if it was 10% or 20% or whatever. But you copy-pasted such a big amount of content from one book to the other that I feel very much fooled! There are even chapters where the page title says "The BeatTips Manual". I don't want to insult you, but on the other hand... with fooling your customers you are insulting them! So just accept my anger and simply imagine the swearwords which I won't write here!
              PEOPLE: DON'T BUY "THE ART OF SAMPLING" IF YOU ALREADY OWN "THE BEATTIPS MANUAL". IT SHOULD BE CALLED "THE ART OF COPY-PASTING" INSTEAD!
              Last edited by Jackadelic; 03-25-2013, 06:12 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Jackadelic View Post
                After being so happy with "The BeatTips Manual", when I discovered that you also wrote another e-book, "The Art Of Sampling", for me it was a no-brainer that I would buy that one as well. But actually I am very disappointed!
                In the introduction you explain that you want to evaluate further into the art of sampling and want to elaborate a bit more about everything. But actually, 90% of the contents in "The Art Of Sampling" are just copy-pasted from "The BeatTips Manual". I mean, I wouldn't mind if it was 10% or 20% or whatever. But you copy-pasted such a big amount of content from one book to the other that I feel very much fooled! There are even chapters where the page title says "The BeatTips Manual". I don't want to insult you, but on the other hand... with fooling your customers you are insulting them! So just accept my anger and simply imagine the swearwords which I won't write here!
                PEOPLE: DON'T BUY "THE ART OF SAMPLING" IF YOU ALREADY OWN "THE BEATTIPS MANUAL". IT SHOULD BE CALLED "THE ART OF COPY-PASTING" INSTEAD!
                Jackadelic,

                A couple of quick points...

                First, you clearly did NOT read The Art of Sampling in its entirety.

                Second, The Art of Sampling contains more than 150 pages of material never before published.

                Third, The Art of Sampling takes a much deeper and detailed look at fair use and the current copyright situation in America. (Perhaps this is of no interest to you because you're in Germany.)

                Now....

                As for your assertion of "Copy and Paste," or the implication that I intend to "fool" you or anyone else. You're incredibly off-base. My work that I've done and continue to do here for free attests that! Furthermore, I'll let you in on a few things since you apparently find it so easy to express such vitriol here in this review thread about The BeatTips Manual.

                Point 1: The BeatTips Manual, 5th Edition wasn't suppose to have a copyright or clearance section in it. Prior to the 4th Edition (2007) of The BeatTips Manual, I announced that I would be writing a book specifically on sampling and copyright law. (This was well documented on several websites.) By the time the 5th Edition of The BeatTips Manual was ready, I made a decision to include some copyright info and other material. It was really an extra bonus. This is one main reason that I did not do as wide a release with the 5th Edition as my distributors wanted me to. This is also why the last of the hard copies of the 5th Edition were sold out months ago and why new hard copies were never reprinted.

                Point 2: The Art of Sampling is its own book, specifically for people *just interested in sampling. Whereas The BeatTips Manual is a much more robust and inclusive study that includes material on Music Theory and Business, etc., as well as exclusive interviews. The Art of Sampling does NOT include any of this material! (Side note: Many people have requested that I release a book consisting just of all of my interviews over the past 10 years. Certainly, if I were to do so, it would be foolish to call such an offering a "cut and paste" job.) The simple fact of the matter is, there are some people, for one reason or another, who may not want to read everything in The BeatTips Manual, they just want information on sampling. Plenty of people have emailed me expressing that they initially bought The BeatTips Manual for the Business information; others still have expressed to me that they bought it for the History information; and others still have expressed to me that they bought it for the Interviews. It's a comprehensive book about beatmaking and *everything* that surrounds it. The Art of Sampling is about sampling and copyright law—period! Which is exactly why it's a smaller and less expensive book. It's geared towards one specific audience that may never need the larger scope of The BeatTips Manual. Incidentally, there are colleges and high schools that will be using The Art of Sampling as required reading for courses on United States copyright law and the implications it holds for the arts. The teachers from these institutions (some I've communicated with directly) simply have no use for all of what The BeatTips Manual covers. Moreover, fair use is absolutely paramount to sample-based beatmakers; it's even more important than sample clearance. In The BeatTips Manual, there's essentially *one* paragraph devoted to fair use. Whereas in The Art of Sampling, fair use is a major theme that's thoroughly examined!

                Point 3: Every author or manufacturer that makes a less expensive, less inclusive product based on a more robust one that came before must incorporate material and ideas from the prior. For instance, let's say an author writes a robust book about the history of rock 'n' roll that features Led Zeppelin. If that same author writes a book specifically about Led Zeppelin and the crucial role they played in changing the scope of artist contracts in the music industry and tour splits (something not covered in the broader history of rock book), it would be foolish and negligent for that author not to include much of his or her prior valuable research on Led Zeppelin. And for a far simpler manufacturer's analogy, consider the difference between an Apple iPad and an iPad mini. Certainly, the iPad mini will undoubtedly have much of the architecture of the larger iPad. Only, the iPad mini has less features, it's smaller, and it's less expensive. In either scenario, it's ridiculous to assert that a "copy and paste" job has taken place.

                Point 4: The 6th Edition of The BeatTips Manual, which includes only a few minor but necessary updates, will be published shortly and it does NOT include a copyright section at all! The publishing dates for the 6th Edition of The BeatTips Manual and The Art of Sampling were relatively close. As I've done with all of my books, whenever I receive advance copies that are available for prior press requests, I also make my books available through BeatTips. If you note, Amazon.com and all of my other vendors do NOT as of yet have hard copies of The Art of Sampling. And they likely will not have hard copies until the 6th Edition of The BeatTips Manual is published. And BeatTips or Superchamp Books is the only place one can get an early digital copy.

                Finally,
                keep this in mind: You could have emailed me directly with your concerns, questions, or grievances instead of writing here (in a thread about reviews ofThe BeatTips Manual), and implying that The Art of Sampling is some attempt by me to "fool" people. But, just three posts into your registered time here in TBC, this is what you chose do? And more than that, you make a loud call for everyone to NOT buy "THE ART OF SAMPLING" IF YOU ALREADY OWN "THE BEATTIPS MANUAL," despite the fact that there's more than 60 pages of new info on Fair Use, more than 50 pages of new info on the courts, a Best Practices section, and other material?

                Listen, it's one thing to have a grievance as a customer. It's another thing to take a shot at me and my integrity...inside this community no less. I mean seriously: "IT SHOULD BE CALLED "THE ART OF COPY-PASTING" INSTEAD!" If you feel that comfortable lobbying such an insult towards me, I'm not sure TBC is the community for you. It's clear by the very nature of this community that you or anyone can reach out directly to me with your questions and concerns. And your choice not to do so (particularly in light of what you did not about the publishing of the titles in question) indicates to me that you may not be interested in coming together and helping to make TBC stronger. If that's the case, perhaps another community is better suited for you. If that isn't the case, and I sincerely hope that it isn't, send me an email at beattips [at] gmail.com, and we discuss this further.

                —Sa'id

                sigpic
                The BeatTips Manual, 5th Edition
                Available now!

                BeatTips - The most trusted name in beatmaking and hip hop/rap music education.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hello Sa'id,
                  as I started to write here I also want to continue the conversation here to make some points clear.
                  First of all you're right, I did not read the Art Of Sampling in its entirety. So I am sorry for having blamed you for the '90% copy-paste' while it is actually a (much) smaller amount. What I did do was the following: After purchasing 'The Art Of Sampling' I skimmed through the book; so I looked at let's say every 10th page. And there were many explanations, chapter headings etc which I knew from 'The BeatTips Manual'. Actually this was mainly the case in the sampling techniques chapters. As you may have read in my first post here, I am not too much interested in the copyright stuff but mainly in the history, techniques etc. (I do it for hobby and probably will never try to sell my beats; which doesn't mean that I will not read the copyrights chapters one day). So from my point of view, disregarding the copyright chapters, there was a large amount of pages doubled from one book to the other. Please understand that this was a disappointment for me.
                  Now after your explanations and after having a closer look at the book I do understand and highly respect the effort you did put into 'The Art Of Sampling', especially concerning the fair use / copyright sections. Please understand that from my point of view, looking for sampling techniques etc, I was not as much convinced of the book as a beat producer would be who is looking for explanations regarding copyright etc. And after all, I never disrespected the quality of your writing in general. Probably one could even buy one of your books twice and still get a lot for the money.

                  Nevertheless, I am not completely sure if you're right with your opinion on when it is ok to copy-paste and when not. You're absolutely right that it is not really worth to do research twice or to rephrase a whole chapter just so that it is not 'copy-pasted'. But what most authors do is to write something like 'If you want a deeper understanding of xyz you can check out my other book', or e.g. 'xyz, as written in The Beattips Manual'. This is how most authors do it and this is hence how one expects it. If a person buys one book, and then sees a second book of the author he/she would expect that both books are originally written. And not that one is the main work and the other one has x new pages and x pages c/p'ed from the other book. I mean, I buy one book with 450 pages, and one book with 400 pages. What I would expect is that I have 850 original pages to read. If I then have to realize that both books have lets say 200 pages in common, it may be understandable that I feel fooled because the second book was only worth 200 pages instead of 400 pages.
                  I actually really understand why you did it like that, especially the stuff about a standard book for students makes sense. But yeah, its just that I did not expect it to be like that and therefore was disappointed.

                  You blamed me for writing in this forum instead of writing a personal mail to you. Well, I have the strong opinion that if there are 100 positive reviews about your book(s) (there are tons of reviews spreading over the whole right side of the page) it would not harm too much if there is one negative review somewhere in the forum. I think that people may actually be able to differentiate and make their own opinion. I just thought that there are many other people owning "The BeatTips Manual" and considering to buy "The Art Of Sampling". I just thought if would be fair enough to let them know what to expect. Because the problem about ebooks / online orders is that you can't know what to expect before you already bought it.

                  I will edit my first comment and point to this post here. So people will get the corrected view of things. In summary I have to admit that my review was a bit too early and I sincerely apologize for that. Nevertheless, I think there are still some points which justify my first post and I hope that you may be able to understand that.

                  Cheers, Jackadelic
                  Last edited by Jackadelic; 03-25-2013, 06:19 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Jackadelic View Post
                    Hello Sa'id,
                    as I started to write here I also want to continue the conversation here to make some points clear.
                    First of all you're right, I did not read the Art Of Sampling in its entirety. So I am sorry for having blamed you for the '90% copy-paste' while it is actually a (much) smaller amount. What I did do was the following: After purchasing 'The Art Of Sampling' I skimmed through the book; so I looked at let's say every 10th page. And there were many explanations, chapter headings etc which I knew from 'The BeatTips Manual'. Actually this was mainly the case in the sampling techniques chapters. As you may have read in my first post here, I am not too much interested in the copyright stuff but mainly in the history, techniques etc. (I do it for hobby and probably will never try to sell my beats; which doesn't mean that I will not read the copyrights chapters one day). So from my point of view, disregarding the copyright chapters, there was a large amount of pages doubled from one book to the other. Please understand that this was a disappointment for me.
                    Now after your explanations and after having a closer look at the book I do understand and highly respect the effort you did put into 'The Art Of Sampling', especially concerning the fair use / copyright sections. Please understand that from my point of view, looking for sampling techniques etc, I was not as much convinced of the book as a beat producer would be who is looking for explanations regarding copyright etc. And after all, I never disrespected the quality of your writing in general. Probably one could even buy one of your books twice and still get a lot for the money.

                    Nevertheless, I am not completely sure if you're right with your opinion on when it is ok to copy-paste and when not. You're absolutely right that it is not really worth to do research twice or to rephrase a whole chapter just so that it is not 'copy-pasted'. But what most authors do is to write something like 'If you want a deeper understanding of xyz you can check out my other book', or e.g. 'xyz, as written in The Beattips Manual'. This is how most authors do it and this is hence how one expects it. If a person buys one book, and then sees a second book of the author he/she would expect that both books are originally written. And not that one is the main work and the other one has x new pages and x pages c/p'ed from the other book. I mean, I buy one book with 450 pages, and one book with 400 pages. What I would expect is that I have 850 original pages to read. If I then have to realize that both books have lets say 200 pages in common, it may be understandable that I feel fooled because the second book was only worth 200 pages instead of 400 pages.
                    I actually really understand why you did it like that, especially the stuff about a standard book for students makes sense. But yeah, its just that I did not expect it to be like that and therefore was disappointed.

                    You blamed me for writing in this forum instead of writing a personal mail to you. Well, I have the strong opinion that if there are 100 positive reviews about your book(s) (there are tons of reviews spreading over the whole right side of the page) it would not harm too much if there is one negative review somewhere in the forum. I think that people may actually be able to differentiate and make their own opinion. I just thought that there are many other people owning "The BeatTips Manual" and considering to buy "The Art Of Sampling". I just thought if would be fair enough to let them know what to expect. Because the problem about ebooks / online orders is that you can't know what to expect before you already bought it.

                    I will edit my first comment and point to this post here. So people will get the corrected view of things. In summary I have to admit that my review was a bit too early and I sincerely apologize for that. Nevertheless, I think there are still some points which justify my first post and I hope that you may be able to understand that.

                    Cheers, Jackadelic
                    Jackadelic,

                    Before I begin, I want to address this "copy and paste" theme that you are unfortunately bent on pushing...
                    To copy and paste means to copy in whole—without ANY edits, updates, revisions, extended thoughts, etc.—then paste as is. Any material that I used in The Art of Sampling that was previously published was re-read, edited, updated, restructured, and/or revised/reworded (where necessary) for further clarity and the general benefit of readers.
                    Furthermore, I'm sure you're aware that "copy and paste" is a derogatory term. You used the term in your first post, and here again you're employing it. In both cases, it works to mislead people about the quality and integrity of my work and the overall product that's being offered.

                    Next, I'm glad that you did take a closer look, and I'm glad that you highly respect the effort I put into The Art of Sampling. However, your lack of interest or concern for the copyright component of the book should not negate the value of the book. And while I understand your disappointment, I believe your disappointment is misdirected. If you took a closer look at the description of The Art of Sampling on the BeatTips.com store page where you bought both books, you would have read: "The Art of Sampling, which contains everything found in the "Art of Sampling" chapter of the The BeatTips Manual, 5th Edition, plus some updates and vibrant new copyright law information, breaks down the complexity of sampling in the hip hop/rap music tradition, and erases all of the myth and mystery." (http://www.beattips.com/store/#artofsamplingbook).
                    But even without that disclosure, or my detailed breakdown of how The Art of Sampling came about and what the 6th Edition of The BeatTips Manual won't and will include, your initial post directly implied an attempt by me to "fool" and defraud consumers. I greatly resent that.

                    Next, regarding your response to the point I made (Point #3 from my last post) about using valuable prior research is off-base. In order for an author to use any previously published material, he or she must first re-read their work and check for its accuracy, relevance, and general terminology. What holds up can move on, and what needs updating, rewording, or revision must be done. *This is exactly what I did.* Furthermore, with regards to what "most authors" do, you will find that I have a number of footnotes suggesting to readers, for a "deeper understanding, check out...". I also include that structure within The Art of Sampling; and within the 6th Edition of The BeatTips Manual, I include, for "an understanding of sample clearance, copyright law, etc., please see The Art of Sampling."

                    Finally, as regards to your point: "100 positive reviews about your book(s) (there are tons of reviews spreading over the whole right side of the page) it would not harm too much if there is one negative review somewhere in the forum," that line of reasoning is unfortunate. Good or bad review, all I can hope for is an **accurate** review. But the idea of offering a negative review of my book(s) because there are plenty of positive reviews is ridiculous. And it's certainly not helpful to anyone. People appreciate accuracy. A negative review that simply seeks to offset positive reviews yields no accuracy. Such an action is harmful, especially here in our forum.

                    Furthermore, people can "differentiate and make their own opinion" at the point of purchase when they read the clear descriptions of both The BeatTips Manual and The Art of Sampling! Both descriptions give an accurate picture of what to expect! I'm sure any reasonable person would find that to be fair.

                    Finally, I do appreciate your apology for a "bit too early" review. And I do understand why you think some of your earlier points were justified. However, one point that you made in your first post was deeply offensive: "with fooling your customers you are insulting them!" And the rest of the points you made in your first post were either misdirected or based on incomplete information... And as far as the points you made in your second post, I appreciate that you concede that you hadn't really read the book. But as to what one could expect from The Art of Sampling, again, the book's description clearly details that.

                    —Sa'id

                    sigpic
                    The BeatTips Manual, 5th Edition
                    Available now!

                    BeatTips - The most trusted name in beatmaking and hip hop/rap music education.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Sa'id View Post
                      To copy and paste means to copy in whole—without ANY edits, updates, revisions, extended thoughts, etc.—then paste as is. Any material that I used in The Art of Sampling that was previously published was re-read, edited, updated, restructured, and/or revised/reworded (where necessary) for further clarity and the general benefit of readers.

                      Furthermore, I'm sure you're aware that "copy and paste" is a derogatory term. You used the term in your first post, and here again you're employing it. In both cases, it works to mislead people about the quality and integrity of my work and the overall product that's being offered.
                      I am sorry for having used this term without further explanation. I did not really assume that you would not have revised the doubled chapters. But there are paragraphs which do use the same words, phrases etc. and I did not assume that you took the one book and type-wrote every single word once again. If this is what you did, I apologize for the term; if you copied it and then revised it, the term is not completely wrong. Nevertheless, I understand that you may have put a lot of effort into the revisions.

                      Originally posted by Sa'id View Post
                      But even without that disclosure, or my detailed breakdown of how The Art of Sampling came about and what the 6th Edition of The BeatTips Manual won't and will include, your initial post directly implied an attempt by me to "fool" and defraud consumers. I greatly resent that.
                      Sorry, but I couldn't help my feelings and this is what I felt. After your explanations I understand the background and the conception of the two books and apologize for that.

                      Originally posted by Sa'id View Post
                      Next, regarding your response to the point I made (Point #3 from my last post) about using valuable prior research is off-base. In order for an author to use any previously published material, he or she must first re-read their work and check for its accuracy, relevance, and general terminology. What holds up can move on, and what needs updating, rewording, or revision must be done. *This is exactly what I did.* Furthermore, with regards to what "most authors" do, you will find that I have a number of footnotes suggesting to readers, for a "deeper understanding, check out...". I also include that structure within The Art of Sampling; and within the 6th Edition of The BeatTips Manual, I include, for "an understanding of sample clearance, copyright law, etc., please see The Art of Sampling."
                      What I meant here was that instead of taking chapters from one book, revising them and putting them in the other book, you could for example have a much shorter chapter in one of the two books and then redirect readers to the other book. This is what I meant. I did not mean that you wouldn't make use of footnotes at all. I highly appreciate the footnotes and cross-references to other books. Just mean you could've done it with your own books as well.

                      Originally posted by Sa'id View Post
                      Finally, as regards to your point: "100 positive reviews about your book(s) (there are tons of reviews spreading over the whole right side of the page) it would not harm too much if there is one negative review somewhere in the forum," that line of reasoning is unfortunate. Good or bad review, all I can hope for is an **accurate** review. But the idea of offering a negative review of my book(s) because there are plenty of positive reviews is ridiculous. And it's certainly not helpful to anyone. People appreciate accuracy. A negative review that simply seeks to offset positive reviews yields no accuracy. Such an action is harmful, especially here in our forum.
                      It was never my will to intentionally 'outweight' the good reviews with a negative review. The point I wanted to make is that I think both positive and negative reviews should have a place in the forum. If I have a positive review, it is highly welcome here, but if I have a negative review, I shouldn't post it in the forum but instead mail it to you? Well, I think all opinions should be welcome in the community.

                      Originally posted by Sa'id View Post
                      Finally, I do appreciate your apology for a "bit too early" review. And I do understand why you think some of your earlier points were justified. However, one point that you made in your first post was deeply offensive: "with fooling your customers you are insulting them!" And the rest of the points you made in your first post were either misdirected or based on incomplete information... And as far as the points you made in your second post, I appreciate that you concede that you hadn't really read the book. But as to what one could expect from The Art of Sampling, again, the book's description clearly details that.
                      Yes, I have to admit that my first post was rather unreflected and that it contained statements which were unfair and not justified. I deeply apologize for that. After you brought light into my confusion I was able to realize that it is NOT your intention to fool customers and that you DON'T want to insult them. Very sorry for that statement!

                      After all, once again I want to make clear that I highly appreciate your work and that I am very thankful that you're providing your knowledge, experience and research to the readers of your books and to the community. And I definitely will continue reading BOTH books with high emphasis (as other readers I think I will read them more than once). My unreflected first post was due to a misunderstanding concerning the book's contents and due to a lack of understanding concerning the general conception. After having this understanding now, I'm sure both books will be a good read.

                      Cheers, Jackadelic

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Jackadelic View Post
                        It was never my will to intentionally 'outweight' the good reviews with a negative review. The point I wanted to make is that I think both positive and negative reviews should have a place in the forum. If I have a positive review, it is highly welcome here, but if I have a negative review, I shouldn't post it in the forum but instead mail it to you? Well, I think all opinions should be welcome in the community.

                        Yes, I have to admit that my first post was rather unreflected and that it contained statements which were unfair and not justified. I deeply apologize for that. After you brought light into my confusion I was able to realize that it is NOT your intention to fool customers and that you DON'T want to insult them. Very sorry for that statement!

                        After all, once again I want to make clear that I highly appreciate your work and that I am very thankful that you're providing your knowledge, experience and research to the readers of your books and to the community. And I definitely will continue reading BOTH books with high emphasis (as other readers I think I will read them more than once). My unreflected first post was due to a misunderstanding concerning the book's contents and due to a lack of understanding concerning the general conception. After having this understanding now, I'm sure both books will be a good read.

                        Cheers, Jackadelic
                        Jackadelic,

                        Thank you for your acknowledgements and support.

                        But as far as what you've stated here in your last post about reviews, you're still going in the wrong direction, for real! You've completely misrepresented what I wrote, even though you quoted me! So, I'll repeat it again:
                        "Good or bad review, all I can hope for is an **accurate** review. But the idea of offering a negative review of my book(s) because there are plenty of positive reviews is ridiculous. And it's certainly not helpful to anyone. People appreciate accuracy. A negative review that simply seeks to offset positive reviews yields no accuracy. Such an action is harmful, especially here in our forum."

                        From the above, there is NOTHING that says that I don't welcome ALL opinions in this forums! EVERYBODY in TBC knows that I encourage and allow for ALL opinions—whether they are in line with me or not! ASK ANYONE. WE ALL KEEP IT REAL BUT RESPECTFUL IN TBC!

                        A place were opinions are not welcome is NOT the atmosphere that I've cultivated here. And I strongly resent that you have now twice directly insulted me along these lines. Only this time, you're essentially accusing me of censorship with regards to reviews of my books. Seriously??!!
                        By the way: Notice how ALL of your posts are still up. Someone who's concerned with not "welcoming" opinions would simply delete all dissenting opinions! Please think about that for a moment...

                        I literally wrote in my last post: "All I can hope for is an **accurate** review." You quoted that but actually ignored it. Furthermore, I never said a damn thing about only posting a positive review here in TBC, or that you have to mail me a negative one!
                        READ WHAT I ACTUALLY WROTE: "You could have emailed me directly with your concerns, questions, or grievances instead of writing here (in a thread about reviews of The BeatTips Manual)..." In other words, not only did you hijack a thread specifically reserved for reviews of The BeatTips Manual, you actually didn't even write a "review". Instead, in a very hostile fashion, you listed a number of grievances and inaccuracies. That's NOT a review.

                        Listen, don't misquote me, and don't misrepresent what I clearly write. I stress accuracy first and foremost, not some numbers game of this many positive reviews for that many negative ones. That is ridiculous. If something's good, it's good, and people show it love and respect. If it's not, it's not, and people express those impressions. I'm fully aware of and I respect the fact that ANYTHING I publish will receive one of those assessments, so I strive to do quality work and shoot fair, ESPECIALLY HERE IN TBC! Either way, if people don't dig what I've done or appreciate it, I'm alright with that. But I won't stand back when someone in TBC mis-characterizes me or my work inside TBC!
                        Finally, to go negative for the sake of attempting to give an appearance of balance makes no sense, especially when you knew beforehand you hadn't experienced my book in its entirety, or when you missed or misread a detailed description of it before purchasing. That shit is not an "opinion" designed to help anyone!

                        —Sa'id

                        sigpic
                        The BeatTips Manual, 5th Edition
                        Available now!

                        BeatTips - The most trusted name in beatmaking and hip hop/rap music education.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          In general, I totally agree with you, only that now you set me off!
                          Originally posted by Sa'id View Post
                          But the idea of offering a negative review of my book(s) because there are plenty of positive reviews is ridiculous. And it's certainly not helpful to anyone. People appreciate accuracy. A negative review that simply seeks to offset positive reviews yields no accuracy.
                          I do NOT agree with the point you are making. With these words you are accusing me for publishing my first post just for the sake of publishing a negative post! Seriously, I would not at all benefit from writing a negative post just because it is negative. I don't je** off because I just insulted someone, nor do I feel somehow enlightened about it. I don't get why I should do that?! The reason why I wrote this first post was because I was disappointed and I wanted to express that. At that time I gave a shit about how many positive and how many negative reviews there were. It didn't matter for me, honestly!

                          As I said before, I'm sorry for this first post because it included statements which were unfair and not justified. And you are right that this was not an '** acurate review **', or even it may not have been a review at all. I accept that. But nevertheless, it is an expression of my feeling which I had after going through the book for the first time. Whatever you call it, I will not agree that I just invented some random stuff, just to have a reason to insult you or to harm you.

                          Where this whole stuff came from was YOUR statement:
                          Originally posted by Sa'id View Post
                          You could have emailed me directly with your concerns, questions, or grievances instead of writing here
                          I never wanted to accuse you to do censorship here. All I wanted to explain is why I don't write you a mail, but just prefer to discuss this further here. As you said and as you demonstrated, you don't do censorship on this forum. I believe that and I never assumed something else.

                          So now we have two possible ways to go. Either you accept my apologies for my unreflected first post and believe me that I never wanted to insult you personally, nor did I want to start some bad campaign or flame-war or whatever... Then we could just let everything calm down. Or you continue to believe that all I wanted to do was to kick off a hate campaign and that I want to ruin your integrity and business and honour and whatever. Once again: this is NOT what I wanted. Believe it or not. But anyways, if you do believe that, then continue picking apart every word I wrote to find potential insults and incorrectnesses. In this case I'll stand by you and will continue flame-war'ing another 50 posts long.

                          I think for both of us, option 1 would be preferrable...

                          Peace, Jackadelic
                          Last edited by Jackadelic; 03-25-2013, 09:07 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Jackadelic View Post
                            In general, I totally agree with you, only that now you set me off!

                            I do NOT agree with the point you are making. With these words you are accusing me for publishing my first post just for the sake of publishing a negative post! Seriously, I would not at all benefit from writing a negative post just because it is negative. I don't je** off because I just insulted someone, nor do I feel somehow enlightened about it. I don't get why I should do that?! The reason why I wrote this first post was because I was disappointed and I wanted to express that. At that time I gave a shit about how many positive and how many negative reviews there were. It didn't matter for me, honestly!

                            As I said before, I'm sorry for this first post because it included statements which were unfair and not justified. And you are right that this was not an '** acurate review **', or even it may not have been a review at all. I accept that. But nevertheless, it is an expression of my feeling which I had after going through the book for the first time. Whatever you call it, I will not agree that I just invented some random stuff, just to have a reason to insult you or to harm you.

                            Where this whole stuff came from was YOUR statement:


                            I never wanted to accuse you to do censorship here. All I wanted to explain is why I don't write you a mail, but just prefer to discuss this further here. As you said and as you demonstrated, you don't do censorship on this forum. I believe that and I never assumed something else.

                            So now we have two possible ways to go. Either you accept my apologies for my unreflected first post and believe me that I never wanted to insult you personally, nor did I want to start some bad campaign or flame-war or whatever... Then we could just let everything calm down. Or you continue to believe that all I wanted to do was to kick off a hate campaign and that I want to ruin your integrity and business and honour and whatever. Once again: this is NOT what I wanted. Believe it or not. But anyways, if you do believe that, then continue picking apart every word I wrote to find potential insults and incorrectnesses. In this case I'll stand by you and will continue flame-war'ing another 50 posts long.

                            I think for both of us, option 1 would be preferrable...

                            Peace, Jackadelic
                            Listen, I don't know what the fuck "flame-war'ing" is. And it concerns me, because that's the FIRST time I've seen that phrase in TBC. I'm not feeling that vibe that was brought here by you... I addressed all that I needed to address clearly and without any room for misinterpretation. I don't need to "pick apart your words" because all you've done here is misrepresent what I've written—CLEARLY.

                            Bottom line: You came off hostile, you threw insults, you misdirected your "disappointment" even though my book's description on my site's store page was clear; then you threw out some bullshit about positive reviews in the forums are cool, but negative ones should be mailed to me—and you quoted something that I wrote that said ABSOLUTELY NOTHING LIKE THAT as your justification. And all of this was within just your first *6 posts in TBC...
                            So dig it, I'm not sure what your aims were, or why you felt the need for immediate hostility just after joining TBC. But, yo, this entire incident was unnecessary and entirely unwarranted. To your credit, you apologized for some things and conceded others. Still, you wanted to justify some of your more questionable statements and actions, and to do that, you twisted my words even when you quoted them! So no, there's no option for you to offer me on how to proceed from here... This should've been squashed easily a couple posts ago, as soon as it was clear that (1) you never read my book in its entirety; and (2) the fact that the item description on my store's buy page clearly stated what was included. At that point, a simple, "My mistake, I was unclear about the actual material in the book when I purchased it" would've been suffice. Then I would've said, "No problem," and refunded you your money. Simple, real, and proper. NO HARM, NO FOUL... Instead, you created a spectacle in a thread that had nothing to do with The Art of Sampling. And what's your final sentiment? *You try to throw an ultimatum at me, and conclude by writing that you will "stand by me and will continue flame-war'ing another 50 posts long" if we don't "just let every thing calm down." What kind of shit is that?

                            You see why a direct email would've been better in a matter like this? In a public forum, people are quick to save face—at all costs, rather than simply handle differences personally off the boards and without escalation. But dig this: I don't ever have to save face in TBC, because I've already proven my aims and demonstrated that I tell it like it is. And I NEVER mis-characterize or misrepresent what a fellow TBC member writes to get my point across.

                            So, again, I invite you to email me directly at beattips [at] gmail.com or call me at (917) 270-2005. Or I'll email you. If you don't choose this course, cool. And if you want to post one more time in this thread, that's cool, too. But I'm done addressing this here in this thread.

                            —Sa'id

                            sigpic
                            The BeatTips Manual, 5th Edition
                            Available now!

                            BeatTips - The most trusted name in beatmaking and hip hop/rap music education.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Wow. What did I miss? I own both books and will buy the 6th edition too. The purpose is to learn. If you learn something, good. If you dont, then you missed it. Dude, you could have asked around about the book before you bought it. I would have gladly told you that if you didnt need the copyright stuff, then it probably wasnt for you. @ Jackadelic.

                              @ Said, take a breath. Dont argue with this dude and you addressed him like three times, thats two times too many. We come here to learn and if he doesnt get the message of what's being taught then lets move on and leave him behind. The community is positive. If he cant pass info or help out, then he needs to get out. Besides, I didnt see his beatmaking or sampling book posted.

                              Aight, now, let's go.
                              "I'm a chef, not chief, cause i don't recruit/ I take a well known loop and chop it up like fruit."

                              https://soundcloud.com/da-real-bingo

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X